Natural Factors, Not CO2, Driving Switzerland’s Surprising Snow (Non)Trends

Strongly fluctuating snow cover in Switzerland appears to be coupled to ocean cycles

By Dr. Sebastian Lüning and Prof. Fritz Vahrenholt
(German text translated/edited by P Gosselin)

For those who love snow, there are supposedly dark clouds on the horizon. Snow is becoming less and less. Never in the past has snow been as seldom as it is today. In the past it was always there when we needed it. Climate change, however, is putting an end to it. It’s a sad story that everyone has been reading in the newspapers. Of course humans are to blame.

It turns out many of these stories in the press are relatively scant on facts. We’ve reported with a number of hard facts on this topic on a number of occasions, and they don’t exactly fit very well with the alarmist narrative.

Today we are taking a look at Switzerland to see how snow has been doing in the land of the Alps over the past years and what we might expect for the future. In WIREs Climate Change, Martin Beniston provided and overview in 2012 on the Swiss snow trends over the past 90 years (Figure 1).

If you look at the curves for mean snow depth for the 10 stations, we see a great amount of natural variability. Beniston sees a relationship with the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO), which is an important ocean cycle.

Figure 1: Snow depth curves during the winter months for 10 representative stations at 500 – 2700 m elevation: Zurich, 556 m; St Gallen, 779 m; Chateau d’Oex, 985 m; Engelberg, 1035 m; Scuol, 1298 m; Montana, 1508 m; Davos, 1590 m; Segl-Maria, 1798 m; Arosa, 1840 m; Weissfluhjoch, 2690 m. running five year mean. Source: Beniston 2012.

Now let’s examine the duration of snow cover (Fig. 2). Once again we see enormous natural variability. We do not see a trend to shorter snow seasons, and the curve fluctuates wildly.

Fig. 2: Duration of snow cover (in days) in Switzerland using station data. Source: Beniston 2012.

The WSL Institute for Snow and Avalanche Research describes the Swiss trends at his website as follows:

An analysis of snow depths over many years shows that the annual snowpack is subject to large variations, both from year to year, and as regards location (northern/southern flank of the Alps, western/eastern Switzerland, prealps/Alps).

These huge natural fluctuations are the hallmark of the snowpack in wintertime. For this reason, it is difficult to draw any firm conclusions concerning climate-related changes in the snowpack or avalanche activity. Most of the winters in the 1980s, for example, were accompanied by large, rather than smaller quantities of snow. In contrast, towards the end of the 20th century, many measuring stations recorded minimum snowfall. The winters of the 21st century to date have shown a slight recovery, but snow depths are generally below average.

Clear reduction in the Mitteland and prealps

The described changes are more apparent, the lower the altitude of the observation station. Especially in the Mitteland region, the last 20 years are regarded as having the least snowfall since conventional measurements began about 130 years ago – and, according to historical records, the least for 300 years or more. A more exact analysis shows that the trend towards less snowy winters for most stations below 1300 m is statistically significant.

At stations above 2000 m, there is as yet no indication of a reduction in snow depths attributable to climate change. Further investigations have made it clear, moreover, that the reduced snow depths are primarily a consequence of higher winter temperatures, rather than a reduction in precipitation. An analysis of the seasonal differences shows a slight trend towards small amounts of snow in the early winter at intermediate altitudes, and indications of amplified melting during the spring at all altitudes.”

And because of the strong variability measured in the winter, it is also valid for Christmastime. Balz Rittmeyer and Marc Fehr have closely examined snow statistics for Switzerland and come up with an amazing result, and reported it at their blog at the Tagesanzeiger:

The White Christmas myth
Also this year there wasn’t any snow in the lowlands. Whoever thinks there was snow more often during the Christmas holidays in the past, they should look at these data. Is climate change responsible for fewer white Christmases? No. A look at the statistics shows that on December 24 and 25 there was not more snow in the past. Over the measured dataset is almost 80 years long and there is no detectable trend to see. In fact the longest stretch of Christmas without snow occurred from 1941 to 1949.”

Read the whole article at the blog of the Tagesanzeiger. Also the 2016/17 winter has shown us the unpredictability of Swiss snow cover. The online SRF wrote on 28 April 2017:

Record snow at St. Gallen: Never has there been this much snow, so late
This morning the weather reporter of the City of St. reported a snow depth of 26 centimeters. Since mid April this has never happened. The data go back to 1959. The previous record was 25 centimeters in the year 2001, on April 22. Now the record value has been pushed back almost one week. The second half of spring is defined as the middle of April to the end of May. Up to now there has been a maximum of 25 centimeters, namely in January. Also interesting: For the previous record it was the same. On April 22 there was also more snow than there was in the previous winter.”

St. Gallen is 675 m elevation, and well represents a lower elevation station. So will the trend in the middle of the country mean less snow in the winter?

 

27 responses to “Natural Factors, Not CO2, Driving Switzerland’s Surprising Snow (Non)Trends”

  1. Craig T

    Snowfall may not have changed in Switzerland over the last century but the temperature anomaly has gone up over 1.5C.
    http://imgbox.com/9sgnFfeR

    1. Kenneth Richard

      Craig T: “in Switzerland over the last century… the temperature anomaly has gone up over 1.5C.”

      Over the last century of very high solar activity (Modern Grand Maximum), temperatures in Switzerland are only modestly higher than they were during the Little Ice Age, with most of the warming occurring before 1950.

      But if we look at the larger picture, the Swiss Alps (unperturbed by urbanization) are still much colder now than they were for most of the last 10,000 years…

      http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Swiss-Alps-Heiri-and-Lotter-2005.jpg

      And the European Alps in general rise and fall in tandem with trends in solar activity too…

      http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Holocene-Cooling-European-Alps-Rydval-17.jpg

      1. Craig T

        Again, if Gosselin is talking about snowfall for the entire Holocene he should include that in his post.

        The Northern Hemisphere summers are cooler as Earth’s precession has shifted the last 12,000 years. But the graph you chose from Heiri and Lotter 2015 (http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Swiss-Alps-Heiri-and-Lotter-2005.jpg#sthash.SjBnQ6IR.6gC6Ecys.dpuf) has serious errors, as the paper points out:

        “Most likely this human influence was sufficient to cause severe oxygen stress in a lake naturally susceptible to low oxygen conditions. Since no late Holocene temperature decreases of similar amplitude have been recorded by other temperature reconstructions in the chironomid-inferred temperatures are most likely artefacts due to the effects of local human activity on the lake ecosystem.”

        The Hinterburgsee Lake temperatures in that same paper show Alpine summers the last 4,0000 to be warmer and more stable than the lake data you chose.
        http://imgbox.com/1HyPvIh0

        1. Kenneth Richard

          “Again, if Gosselin is talking about snowfall for the entire Holocene he should include that in his post.”

          We’re in the Holocene, Craig. Who are you to complain that someone didn’t mention that most of the Holocene was much warmer than now? It is well known that modern temperatures are still much colder than throughout most of the last 10,000 years, as we’ve only emerged from the one of the coldest little ice ages of the Holocene within the last century. Or are you a Mann hockey-stick believer too, in addition to believing that varying airborne CO2 in volumes of 0.000001 over water bodies dominate as the main source of net heat changes, precluding the influence of natural variability?

          “The Hinterburgsee Lake temperatures in that same paper show Alpine summers the last 4,0000 to be warmer and more stable than the lake data you chose.”

          The graph you included ends 2,000 years ago…which is why I didn’t include it. I chose the graph that shows the modern temperature record relative to the rest of the Holocene for the Swiss Alps. Again, today’s temperatures are still much cooler than most of the Holocene.

          And I also included a graph to a reconstruction of the entire Alpine region, which, again, shows temperatures rise and fall in a pronounced fashion, including after the 1940s, and that recent temperatures are no warmer than the first half of the 20th century (i.e., no net warming):

          http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Holocene-Cooling-European-Alps-Rydval-17.jpg

          And here’s one for Northern Europe:

          http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Holocene-Cooling-Northern-Europe-Rydval-17.jpg

        2. AndyG55

          ““Most likely this human influence was sufficient ”

          Love the way, that with zero proof, they manage to slide a human influence meme in..

          … for publication purposes, no doubt. 🙂

        3. Craig T

          “The graph you included ends 2,000 years ago…which is why I didn’t include it. I chose the graph that shows the modern temperature record relative to the rest of the Holocene for the Swiss Alps. Again, today’s temperatures are still much cooler than most of the Holocene.“

          You didn’t have to choose between a graph without the last 2,000 years or a graph with inaccurate temperatures for 4,000 years. There are plenty of other studies of summer temperatures of mountain lakes in the Alps. They show only minor variations in temperature for the last 3,000 years.
          https://imgbox.com/yhl5oWai

          You are right that temperatures in the Alps were warmer than now the first 7,000 years of the Holocene and around 3 degrees C warmer 10,000 years ago. At least in the summer. Current winter temperatures are the warmest they have been for the last 10,000 years. That fits with the idea that changes in the Earth’s procession cooled summers and warmed winters in the northern hemisphere. If you look at annual temperatures as found in the NGRIP ice cores you’ll see temperatures only fell one degree from the start of the Holocene to 1900.
          https://imgbox.com/7NWq4d8I

          Has solar forcing been the main driver of temperature change for the last 1,000 years? If you look at the northern and southern hemispheres, it’s uncommon for both hemispheres to be warm or cold at the same time. There was no warming in the southern hemisphere during the Medieval maximum or cooling during the Wolf Minimum. Just before the Sporer Minimum the northern hemisphere was warm and the southern hemisphere cold, but by the Sporer Minimum only the Northern Hemisphere was cold.
          http://imgbox.com/5e3N5V8S

          There are only two times during the last thousand years that both hemispheres have had a change in climate at the same time. During the LIA temperatures dipped but that started a century before the Maunder Minimum during a time of heavy volcanic activity. The other time is the warming of the last century.

          1. AndyG55
          2. Kenneth Richard

            Here are a few more from the equatorial regions down south (the bottom half of the planet). Apparently the globe hasn’t been warming. Only some regions have. Odd how that happens with well-mixed greenhouse gases as prevalent in the North as the South.

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Southwest-Tropical-Pacific-DeLong-2012.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Equatorial-Pacific-Ault-2013.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Holocene-Cooling-Pacific-Western-SSTs-Wei-15.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Western-Pacific-Warm-Pool-OHC-Rosenthal-2017.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Equatorial-Atlantic-SST-Rosenthal-17.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Western-Equatorial-Pacific-Shevenell-2011.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Chile-de-Jong-13.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Holocene-Cooling-Chile-von-Gunten-2009.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Andes-South-America-De-Jong-16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Brazil-Drake-Passage-OHC-SST-Silveira-Pezzi-14.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Holocene-Cooling-Southeast-Pacific-Shevenell-2011.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-South-Africa-Makapansgat-Valley-Tyson-2000.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Tropical-Congo-River-Basin-S%C3%A1nchez-Sesma-15.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-South-Africa-Madagascar-SST-Zinke-2014.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Atlantic-SST-Africa-SW-Dupont-04.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Atlantic-Equatorial-Africa-Weldeab-05_edited-1.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Australia-SE-ODonnell-16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-New-Zealand-Tyson-2000.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-New-Zealand-de-Frietas-2015.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-India-Western-Himalaya-Sunkara-Tiwari-16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-South-China-Sea-Yan-2015.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Hengduan-Mountains-South-China-Fan-09.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Arabian-Sea-Munz-15.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Indian-Ocean-SSTs-Zinke-16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Holocene-Cooling-Himalaya-Nepal-Thapa-15.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-e-Southern-Ocean-SST-Jones16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Southern-Ocean-Markle-2017.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Holocene-Cooling-Southern-Ocean-Bostock13.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Fan-Lake-Antarctic-Region-Foster-16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctic-Stenni-17-East-West-Whole-Antarctica.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-Schneider-2006.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-East-Antarctica-Miles16-copy.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-Circle-Mayewski-17-1.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-Peninsula-Turner16-copy.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-West-Fudge-16.jpg

          3. AndyG55
          4. Kenneth Richard

            “Current winter temperatures are the warmest they have been for the last 10,000 years.”

            Where, exactly?

            “If you look at the northern and southern hemispheres, it’s uncommon for both hemispheres to be warm or cold at the same time.”

            It’s called heat distribution in the global oceans via natural meridonal overturning

            http://www.nature.com/srep/2015/150310/srep08909/full/srep08909.html?WT.ec_id=SREP-20150317
            A prominent feature of recent climatic change is the strong Arctic surface warming that is contemporaneous with broad cooling over much of Antarctica and the Southern Ocean. Longer global surface temperature observations suggest that this contrasting pole-to-pole change could be a manifestation of a multi-decadal interhemispheric or bipolar seesaw pattern, which is well correlated with the North Atlantic sea surface temperature variability, and thus generally hypothesized to originate from Atlantic meridional overturning circulation oscillations. Here, we show that there is an atmospheric origin for this seesaw pattern. The results indicate that the Southern Ocean surface cooling (warming) associated with the seesaw pattern is attributable to the strengthening (weakening) of the Southern Hemisphere westerlies, which can be traced to Northern Hemisphere and tropical tropospheric warming (cooling). Antarctic ozone depletion has been suggested to be an important driving force behind the recently observed increase in the Southern Hemisphere’s summer westerly winds; our results imply that Northern Hemisphere and tropical warming may have played a triggering role at an stage earlier than the first detectable Antarctic ozone depletion, and enhanced Antarctic ozone depletion through decreasing the lower stratospheric temperature.

            As presented above, the natural heat distribution changes happen in modern times too. The Arctic cooled and the Greenland Ice Sheet gained mass from 1940 to 1990. The Antarctic warmed and sea ice declined from about 1950 to 1980. Since then, the entire Southern Hemisphere has been gaining sea ice…. http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Sea-Ice-Extent-Southern-Hemisphere-Comiso-2017.jpg, the Southern Ocean has been cooling, as has much of the Southern Hemisphere.

            The Northern Hemisphere cooled by -0.6 C from 1940-1970 (prior to the data manipulation removing most of it) as the Southern Hemisphere showed no obvious trends during that period (which is why climatologists routinely wrote that global temperatures cooled by -0.3 C between 1940 and the 1970s — though that has now been eliminated by data manipulation).

            Do you think any of these patterns are consistent with your beliefs that human CO2 emissions have had a dominating influence on climate…especially relative to natural forcing/variability. As today’s post shows, modern temperatures haven’t even fallen outside the range of natural variability. I have collected over 200 graphs of stable or cooling temperatures from around the world just in the last 2 1/2 years. Only some regions of the world are warming. This isn’t consistent with the perspective that well-mixed GHGs drive net heat changes in the global oceans. Or do you think so?

            Are you a Mann hockey stick believer too?

          5. Kenneth Richard

            Here are a few more from the equatorial regions down south (the bottom half of the planet). Apparently the globe hasn’t been warming. Only some regions have. Odd how that happens with well-mixed greenhouse gases as prevalent in the North as the South.

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Southwest-Tropical-Pacific-DeLong-2012.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Equatorial-Pacific-Ault-2013.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Holocene-Cooling-Pacific-Western-SSTs-Wei-15.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Western-Pacific-Warm-Pool-OHC-Rosenthal-2017.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Equatorial-Atlantic-SST-Rosenthal-17.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Western-Equatorial-Pacific-Shevenell-2011.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Chile-de-Jong-13.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Holocene-Cooling-Chile-von-Gunten-2009.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Andes-South-America-De-Jong-16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Brazil-Drake-Passage-OHC-SST-Silveira-Pezzi-14.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Holocene-Cooling-Southeast-Pacific-Shevenell-2011.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-South-Africa-Makapansgat-Valley-Tyson-2000.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Tropical-Congo-River-Basin-S%C3%A1nchez-Sesma-15.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-South-Africa-Madagascar-SST-Zinke-2014.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Atlantic-SST-Africa-SW-Dupont-04.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Atlantic-Equatorial-Africa-Weldeab-05_edited-1.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Australia-SE-ODonnell-16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-New-Zealand-Tyson-2000.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-New-Zealand-de-Frietas-2015.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-India-Western-Himalaya-Sunkara-Tiwari-16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-South-China-Sea-Yan-2015.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Hengduan-Mountains-South-China-Fan-09.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Arabian-Sea-Munz-15.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Indian-Ocean-SSTs-Zinke-16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Holocene-Cooling-Himalaya-Nepal-Thapa-15.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-e-Southern-Ocean-SST-Jones16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Southern-Ocean-Markle-2017.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Holocene-Cooling-Southern-Ocean-Bostock13.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Fan-Lake-Antarctic-Region-Foster-16.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctic-Stenni-17-East-West-Whole-Antarctica.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-Schneider-2006.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Holocene-Cooling-East-Antarctica-Miles16-copy.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-Circle-Mayewski-17-1.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-Peninsula-Turner16-copy.jpg

            http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Holocene-Cooling-Antarctica-West-Fudge-16.jpg

    2. AndyG55

      And a very solid link with the AMO…

      https://s19.postimg.org/xxtc8onhv/swiss_glaciers.png

    3. Alfred (Melbourne)

      “Snowfall may not have changed in Switzerland over the last century but the temperature anomaly has gone up over 1.5C.”

      Not so a short distance (100km) away at Germany’s highest mountain.

      “Station At Germany’s Highest Summit Measures Midwinter Cooling Of Over -3°C Over Past 30 Years!”

      http://notrickszone.com/2017/02/14/station-at-germanys-highest-summit-measures-midwinter-cooling-of-over-3c-over-past-30-years/

    4. AndyG55

      “temperature anomaly has gone up over 1.5C”

      oh look, someone’s been using GISS “adjusted” data. !!

  2. Ric Werme

    I track snowfall and “snow depth day” information for some sites around New England at http://wermenh.com/sdd/index.html The variance between sites is amazing. Sometimes my Penacook data tracks nearby sites well, sometimes the rain/snow line makes for a tremendous difference.

    Maybe there’s information when looking at data for an entire continent, but overall I consider snow data one of the worst datasets to use looking for evidence of climate change.

    Besides, once snow becomes just a memory, we’ll have to find different datasets to mine. 🙂

    1. sod

      “Maybe there’s information when looking at data for an entire continent, but overall I consider snow data one of the worst datasets to use looking for evidence of climate change.”

      you are right. But summer snow actually might be a good indicator of global warming being real and no UHI effect.

      And spring is a better indicator than winter, of course.

      http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_seasonal.php?ui_set=eurasia&ui_season=2

      1. clipe

        “But summer snow actually might be a good indicator of global warming…”

        How right is “might”?

        1. sod

          “How right is “might”?”

          as we agreed above, snow cover might not be a good indicator for temperature changes. snow is showing massive fluctuations, huge regional differences and extend can be misleading about snow amounts.

          summer snow gives some pretty good information about temperature, as it is less influenced by (new) snow fall, which could be a side effect of warming and the air containing more water.

          summer snow also has a much stronger trend (that is that “significance” again, which sceptics mostly ignore…)

          1. AndyG55

            sob-sob..

            If you want summer snow..

            MOVE TO SIBERIA.

            I bet you won’t .. hypocritical troll !!

          2. AndyG55

            Tell me something sob-sob…

            Why is it that nearly all AGW-scam supporters choose to live in inner city far-left ghettos with fossil fuel heating in winter, and fossil fuel cars, built and supplied by fossil fuel energy and transport, running fossil fuel built and powered computers so they can yap ceaselessly about how much they hate fossil fuel energy ?

            You and your bum-chum seb, being the obvious example.

          3. sod

            you have nothing but insults and your own false view of the world.

            If you ever make it into a super market, you will see that healthy food is on the rise.

            If you ever manage to see how “green” people really live, you will see many involved in gardening activities.

            Your range of vision obviously ends about 2 cm before your head.

            Most people who use fossil fuels today are working hard for a future without them.

            we will both live to see renewables producing the majority of electricity and we will see the move to electric cars. Just wait and see.

          4. AndyG55

            So, you do rely on fossil fuels.

            Most people today are trying to avoid their countries being literally and economically decimated by the renewable energy scam.

            Interesting that you didn’t counter ONE SINGLE point about how you live. Your vision has disappear up your rear-end.

            Why is it that nearly all AGW-scam supporters choose to live in inner city far-left ghettos with fossil fuel heating in winter, and fossil fuel cars, built and supplied by fossil fuel energy and transport, running fossil fuel built and powered computers so they can yap ceaselessly about how much they hate fossil fuel energy ?

            “Most people who use fossil fuels today are working hard for a future without them.”

            RUBBISH… Most people are getting sick of the far-left socialist agenda driving the AGW scam.

            I see further than you, sob-sob. I see the day that the anti-CO2 scam is brought to an end, and science and common sense can again come to the fore… when sane people realise that CO2 is actually totally necessary for life on this planet.

      2. AndyG55

        ““But summer snow actually might be a good indicator of global warming…””

        Ahhh!… the sob-sob FANTASY world .. yet again !!

  3. clipe

    Being practical (of or concerned with the actual doing or use of something rather than with theory and ideas) Visit Scotland doesn’t mention the global whatever/climate whatever/…crap.

    1. clipe

      Of course, being practical, ‘Visit Scotland’ doesn’t mention the blight of wind turbines carpeting the once beautiful landscapes.

  4. clipe
  5. AndyG55