Geologist and climate science site “Die kalte Sonne” operator Dr. Sebastian Lüning has written an e-mail to Deutsche Welle (DW) German public radio in response to their claims of “glaciers melting faster than ever before” made in a recent broadcast.
Mont Blanc Massif, Photo by Gnomefililiere, CC BY-SA 3.0
Just days ago Kenneth Richard posted on the subject here and showed using published scientific literature that this is likely far from being true.
In recent years, the documented rise in sea levels contributed from glacier and ice sheet melt has not come close to reaching the high levels attained during the 1920s and 1930s period as documented by Gregory et al., 2013.”
Unfortunately Deutsche Welle was sloppy in that they didn’t bother to fact-check, and so as a result they put out overly alarmist information to the public.
I translated Dr. Lünning’s e-mail message in English:
To: Deutsche Welle [German Public Television]
From: Dr. Sebastian Lüning
Sent: 22 March 2016
Topic: Film “Das große Gletscher-Schmelzen” [The great glacier melt] from 27 February 2016
Dear editorial board,
Concerning the above mentioned broadcast, the film commentary claims beginning at the 1:55 mark: ‘Globally glaciers are losing ice faster than ever before’. That is not correct, as in the past in the Alps there have always been characteristic ice melt phases – the last 1000 years ago during the Medieval Warm Period. 5000 years ago (during the mid-Holocene climate optimum) Glaciers in the Alps were in fact almost completely melted away. The claim made in the film does not meet the latest level scientific knowledge. I also very much wondered as to why you completely left out the crucial paleo-climatological context in the report, thus as a result making the current ice melt appear more threatening than it really is.
I would like to receive your comment on this, which I would like to publish at www.kaltesonne.de.
Dr. habil. Sebastian Lüning
Readers can also (politely) send the same or similar message to DW, should they wish. NoTricksZone is also very interested in DW’s comment and would be happy to publish it for international readers as well.
26 responses to “German Geology Expert: Glaciers Are Not Melting “Faster Than Ever” …Requests Statement From Deutsche Welle”
There is photographic evidence which shows that the Rhone glacier lost most of ice in the 19thC and early 20thC
At the not so advanced age of 70 I well recall the “science news stories” that have been reported over the last 30 or so years reporting the “discovery” of skeletons, dwellings, tools and various artifacts uncovered by receding glaciers. These artifacts could be found in those locations only if they were glacier free at the time they were left there. Were there not artifact findings, both in the Alps and in Greenland, in recent decades? Would those discoveries not prove that glaciers have advanced and receded without the help of humans?
Regardless of facts, you have been found guilty. Pay up.
Maybe that’s the paper you remember http://www.climate.unibe.ch/~stocker/papers/joerin06hol.pdf Multicentury glacier fluctuations in the Swiss Alps during the Holocene
Unfortunately in German but go to pages 40 and 41, the pictures and drawings http://www.alpinfo.ch/fileadmin/user_upload/alpinfoch/Forschung/Projekte/Klimaentwicklung/Die_Alpen_6-2004.pdf
And: Hannibal did cross the Alps with his Elephants when their were few glaciers. This was explained even by prominent climate ‘warmists’ as due to change in the angle of the earth axis, i.e. sun exposure. Well, then, who says this cannot happen again, the wobbly earth causing melting and freezing of glaciers again and again?
Since the Holocene optimum the climate optima have become weaker and weaker. We’re in for Bond Event 0. And that means rapid cooling. Milankovich cycles indicate that a glaciation is already overdue.
If it’s ONLY A BOND EVENT we’ll be lucky.
Deutsche Welle should request a geological and climatological statement from sod. He’s been in the mountains lately and had bad luck with snow.
I believe he’d gladly issue a scientific opinion on this matter.
Quote direct from sob
“The drugs affair will have no influence, because nobody can even imagine Kretschmann using drugs.
And you are right, i am not happy with him. He is much too conservative for me.”
too conservative to take drugs….
read your own carp before to post it.
Sorry… That post is not where this was meant to land.
Please erase from this thread.
Deutsche Welle should request a geological and climatological statement from sod. He’s been in the mountains lately and he had nothing but rotten luck with snow.
I’m sure he can issue a definitive scientific opinion on this matter.
“Deutsche Welle should request a geological and climatological statement from sod. He’s been in the mountains lately and he had nothing but rotten luck with snow”
I do not know, why you bring this up here, as it has basically no connection. This is the topic, in which we discussed snow and skiing:
As i wrote back then already (because this is what i was told in the skiing resorts) the season was extremely bad.
If you look at reports now, they confirm this.
Small resorts in Germany basically saw no snow at all:
“Die beschneiten Skigebiete waren an 60 Tagen geöffnet, der normale Durchschnitt liegt bei 80 Tagen. Naturschneepisten waren dagegen nur an zehn Tagen offen.”
Without artificial snow, (10 days) skiing is basically dead.
That is also what this report from Swiss says:
Hiking replaces skiing in some resorts. Small, low resorts (and those without artificial snow) have huge problems.
That is what i said in the past and that is what everybody is saying now. (by the way, i am rather happy that some of them will make a little bit of business in the easter holidays at least. so let us hope that the “cold blast” that was predicted will at least keep them some snow over the easter days, as the prospect is lots of sun now!)
“Small, LOW resorts (and those without artificial snow) have huge problems.” – sod
OK, OK, you’re afraid of heights. So am I. But if we weren’t, I think there are some areas we could find to ski:
like this one
or this one
(pictures of 3/24/16 – future updates not representative of today’s conditions)
“OK, OK, you’re afraid of heights. So am I. But if we weren’t, I think there are some areas we could find to ski:”
I am repeating myself, but once again:
we MUST look only at the lower and smaller skiing resorts.
The very high and big resorts (you brought up Damüls, the biggest, in the last topic as well) will continue to have snow for a long time (they simply produce it with snow cannons) and actually get more snow in warm winters (the rain that is damaging the lower resorts falls as snow at great heights).
so if you look at the snow in southern Germany, you will see that there basically is very little left:
And basically the resorts even have an advantage this year, because easter is very early and we had a few cold days (which allows snow production at night)
I do not know, what data i shall add. You simply ignore the record warm of december, january and february. You ignore the reports from skiing resorts that i link to. You ignore the things that i retell you because they were told to me during my visit in the alps. You ignore the multiple reports about a bad skiing season that i keep linking.
So just another link, an analysis of the satellite data for snow cover: winter 2015/2016 had the least snow cover of all years since 2000.
“Das Deutsche Fernerkundungsdatenzentrum des Deutsche Zentrums für Luft- und Raumfahrt (DLR) in Oberpfaffenhofen hat Satellitenbilder der Winter seit 2000 analysiert. Und was Skifahrer seit Wochen schmerzlich vermissen, ist nun wissenschaftlich belegt: Fast überall in Deutschland gab es noch nie so viele schneefreie Tage. Zudem waren vor allem am Alpensüdrand viele Hänge über 40 Tage länger ohne Schnee als im Schnitt.”
Again: the smallest amount of snow cover since 2000. Makes for bad skiing. Exactly as i said in the past over and over again, with inks and quotes.
Perhaps you will accept te facts for once. But i am not holding my breath.
“You simply ignore the record warm of december, january and february.” – sod
OK, sod, give me some numbers
date (in December)
I’d like to see what you are talking about, rather than just assuming.
For date (I meant to write Dec, Jan, Feb)
december 2015 was the warmest on record in Germany. There was basically no snow or even frost (which also makes it impossible to run snow cannons).
December was about 5°C warmer than the average.
And if you want to ignore that ground data based analysis, stick to the satellite pictures of snow cover: the least in 15 years.
Or keep ignoring all the facts.
not at all what I asked for
Here are the February Temps for Berlin.
Does anyone see anything HOT !!!
Warmest I see is 52ºF !!
NOT HOT !!! STILL COLD !!!!
“As i wrote back then already (because this is what i was told in the skiing resorts) the season was extremely bad.”
It’s the Sod Effect.
“It’s the Sod Effect.”
yeah. I simply faked the satellite snow cover record back to 2000.
Why not simply, once in a lifetime, admit that you folks were wrong on some point?
Wrong about what?
The Sod effect is the reverse of the Gore effect. Around Sod, local warming materializes and melts snow. I seem to have more like a Gore effect on my surroundings.
When I worked in Hamburg for 2 years, all of Hamburg froze over two winters in a row and the poor dears were helpless like a bug on its back. Hamburgers don’t have winter tyres as it rarely snows or frezes up there. Except when I’m around. They are also entirely incapable of clearing Autobahns and walkways from snow and ice.
“I’m sure he can issue a definitive scientific opinion on this matter.”
deep sarcasm fits you well, CW 🙂
This chart shows how Swiss glaciers are related to the AMO.
Again, we have the case of people cherry picking.
a) the period of NH warming since 1979 based on the AMO
b) the period of warming out of the intense cold of the LIA.
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